Murray / Canavan
Henry Ambrose Canavan, known as Ambrose and later as Papie to his Norwood grandchildren, was raised in Warwick, Rhode Island, by his parents Richard Sylvester Canavan and Barbara Warburton Canavan, along with his three siblings James, John, and Mary.
Theresa Agnes Murray, called Agnes and Grammy, was raised in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, by her parents John Murray and Mary Higgins Murray along with her siblings David, Janet, Margaret, John, and Thomas.
Agnes and Ambrose raised four children in Cranston Rhode Island- Mary, Richard, Barbara, and Regina. Theirs was a happy marriage, and their home was filled with much love and deep faith in the Catholic Church.
more to follow...
Barbara
Canavan Curran
Barbara, also known to us as Mom and Shanna, talks about meeting her father-in-law Bart as well as the Norwood bar Lewis's, as well as the pedical flap.
SHANNA
Shanna recalls some of her earliest memories
How did Agnes and Ambrose meet?
Barbara CANAVAn
Barbara's mother Agnes grew up "poor poor" with her mother (Mary Rose Higgins Murray) and a father (John Murray) who was not around much. Agnes's grandmother (Mary McLaughlin Higgins) lived with them and helped raise the children
The Cananvans lived in the "Homestead" on Wakefield Street in Warwick- Richard Sylvester Canavan, Alice O'Hare Canavan, and their children James, Mathilda, Mary, Ambrose, and John. Barbara Canavan Gamelin was also raised there by Aunt Mary and Aunt Tilda after her mother died in childbirth.
EXPAND TEXT DM-10062 04-30-02 Shanna- Papie, dark rm, canavans And what do you know of your mother's childhood and education? Nothing, that's what I ws saying. I often think, what was her childhood like? I know they were poor, poor. Because Ginny said, her folks, she said, her mother was poor. But she said, her mother said, my mother was, they were poor, poor. There really aren't any pictures of Grammy, were there? Are there, when she was little? Just the one in the school picture. And then there's the one I have in the hall, standing, I think, holding onto a chair. But Dad, on the other hand, you know, they always took trips and picture taking. Barbara was telling me not too long ago, which I didn't know, that Uncle James was like Dad. And they, before either one were married, they had a dark room upstairs. On Wakefield Street. And I guess Uncle James always, you know, had that. And Dad had the dark room down in the cellar on Brook Street. Oh yeah, that's right. And I remember being down with him. It was very interesting, one little red light. Oh, I was with my dad every chance I got, I loved him. I loved my mother, too. Entirely different personalities. Did Papie ever buy a camera for any of you kids? Or let you use his camera? No, he never made a lot about us taking pictures. Yeah, because he took so many. But Grammy, growing up, you know that she lived with her mother and her grandmother. Her father was a wanderer. She had the two oldest siblings and two deceased siblings. And this is what I wish I had asked more about, you know, what her childhood was like. Yeah. They lived in an apartment. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. If it was a small one family. Oh. Or two families, I don't know. But you know the address. Yeah. You've never driven past or anything. No. Huh. I know. It was off, if it still left, Webb Street, off Mineral Spring Avenue. In? Pawtucket. Pawtucket, right. Yeah, it was Pawtucket. It was a prairie, she often would say. It was a prairie? That's funny. And then she went to public school? Yeah. Oh, no, she went to St. Mary's. In Pawtucket? Mm-hmm. Until? And I think she only went to like sixth grade. I think Dad only went to eighth grade. But, you know, her spelling was always great, her penmanship. Wow. Yeah, by sixth grade. And I remember we used to go, Dad used to take us to the Lafayette often to eat. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. And she would recite that whole thing. Lafayette was a Frenchman, you know. Oh, yeah, she was a great, her education consisted of a lot of memorization, I think. She had poems. But, you know, like in her, remember, from grammar school. Yeah. And Dad was the only one that didn't have like a college education. In his family? Yeah. Really? Yeah. And I don't know why, unless it was when his mother took sick, Uncle James went to like, what am I trying to say? Like a... a trade school? Yeah. That's not the word I was looking for, but like a trade school. And he was really artistic. And Aunt Mary went to a normal school, became principal. And Uncle John, who I don't remember, went to Johns Hopkins. Wow. So, tell me the order of Papie's siblings. Uncle James. Was the oldest. Yeah. Dad. Mm-hmm. Aunt Mary and John. And, oh, she lost about at least three. Really? I think she had one or two Johns before. Oh, really? Before it took... My mother said he was, and from his pictures, he was handsome. Yeah. But he's the one you didn't know? No. He died of TB like at the age of 32 or something. Oh, gosh. And I remember... He was the youngest. Yeah. And was his mother still alive, do you think? She died when she was 64. And what was her name? Barbara. Oh, Barbara Warburton? Mm-hmm. Was she the Warburton? Mm-hmm. And then she... She was the oldest of, I think, eight. Oh, really? Yeah. And her father became a Catholic after, I think, something like 14 years of marriage. And became very devout, played... They all played the organ at church. And I guess his name was James. He played the organ. Aunt Mary Canavan, and Dad. Uncle James played the clarinet. They had a small little band. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. So, Barbara Warburton, her father was James Warburton? And what was her mother's name? I think it... I'm not sure. Maybe like Alice O'Hare. O'Hare? She was Irish, yeah. Huh. What's Warburton? English? Yeah. And what was his religion that he grew up with? I don't know. A Christian, Protestant faith? Yeah. And then she had... I know Ma's grandmother was Presbyterian. I remember Ma saying that. And I think a lot of people born in Scotland were Presbyterian. Oh. You remind me of Carolyn Farrick. She did that all the time. Twisted her hair. Yeah. So, Barbara Warburton, who was probably raised Catholic... Yes. ...married... Richard Sylvester. Where that came from, I don't know. Canavan? Oh, that was Papie's father's name, Richard? Mm-hmm Richard Sylvester Canavan. Do you know anything about his parents? His father was John. I suppose his mother was Mary. No, and I'm sure it's in... John Canavan. You don't know what her maiden name was? No. I'll have to pull out, you know, the little history that Aunt Mary Canavan... Yeah, I'd like to see that. I'm so glad she wrote that down. Thank God. And that was because of Jimmy Gamlin. Oh, yeah. You know, it was a school project. Yeah. Just like Carrie with Nana. Yeah, and just like Richard with Nana. Yeah, only Aunt Mary's is much more extensive. Oh, good. I mean, she had the dates, you know, when this one died. Right. Yeah. So, Barbara married Richard. Yeah. And they had those four. Four. James. James, Ambrose. Ambrose, Mary, and... I don't know where Henry Ambrose came from. And then who did your uncle's... Aunt Mary never married? No. No. She was an unpicked bud. The unpicked bud. And James, did he ever marry? I'm sorry. I'm mixing it up with John. John. John died. John died. John married too? Yes. Even though he died at 32? Yeah. I think her name was Edna for some reason. Did they have children? No. No. But my mother's recollection of him, and I heard it hundreds of times, was getting off the train and, I don't know, she said he was just the most handsome man with two great danes. Oh, really? Yeah. That's what I heard about him. I remember about Uncle John. Where did he live? Well, probably coming from medical school or whatever. Oh, he went to medical school. Was he a practicing doctor? I would think so, by 32. Yeah, by 32. But I don't know anything about that either. Wow. You know, all these things I never asked Dad. And he died of TB? Yep. Wow. And Edna just kind of lost track? Yeah, Barbara kind of kept in touch. See, she was that much older and, of course, living in the old homestead, and all the aunts and cousins, they'd always go there. And, you know, Dad would talk about, Aunt Alica and Aunt Bertha, this and tha. You know, I mean, they had Who's Bertha? Bertha Mullen. She married, I don't know, one of those girls, Barbara? Mary? Sarah? Hiram? Whittaker? Whose kids are these? Barbara's siblings. Barbara Gamelin? No, Barbara, my grandmother. Oh, the eight Warburtons. Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. But Hiram and Whittaker. Wow. I remember Dad saying, Whittaker, they called him Warby. Oh. Not much better than. So, James is Barbara's father. Yeah. And he was the oldest. Yeah. And he ended up staying in the family home. Yeah. He had to go down and cellar to smoke. Who's his wife? Well, her name was Mary Brennan of course she died in childbirth. The peritonitis set in that was the doctor's fault because people, you know, from what I've heard, so many people said you should sue that doctor, but they wouldn't. So imagine having a new baby and your wife died. Do you think that's when he moved back home, or do you think he just never left? Yeah, because I think they might have lived in Pawtucket. Oh, she was from Pawtucket, too. Her name was Mary Brennan. Pretty. Some pictures I've seen really are pretty. And her mother said she was such a nice, nice person. So Barbara was brought up by Aunt Mary. And Aunt Tilda. Who's Tilda? She was my grandfather's sister. Richard's sister. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I didn't ask that. Who had a brother, John, Tilda, Mathilda, Mary Ann, and Lizzie. And they were all Canavans. And Tilda lived with him? Yeah, she and Aunt Mary, because Aunt Mary was, really it was Aunt Tilda that brought up Barbara, because Aunt Mary was, teaching. And she was, I remember, she was clean, clean, clean. In fact, Barbara said, you know, later in life, she said, I'm sorry I ever brought you up this way, because Barbara is, she'd be taking things out of the cabinet to wash. She did. She took them out of, I don't know where, took everything out of the china closet. I said, oh, God, I didn't get any of your genes. But I remember my mother saying, you know, as kids, if we dropped crumbs, she'd be right after us with a dustpan and broom. Tilda. Aunt Tilda. So who was living in the house when Barbara was growing up? Her father and Aunt Tilda and Aunt Mary. And that's it? Yeah. And I think I told you too, which I didn't know until not too long ago, that Grampy bought that duplex as an investment and had planned, you know, to build a house for them later on. So it was a duplex? Yeah. So who lived where? Well, they always lived on the left side, and then they rented. Oh, they did? No, when Barbara got married, she lived on the left side. So Richard and Barbara were dead by the time? I think, oh, and I remember Martha.. . in fact, I have a nice writer about my grandfather. And I think my dad was more like my grandfather. My mother said he was the most wonderful man. I guess easygoing and just she couldn't praise him enough. So she knew him? Yeah. Yeah. I think he died in 1933. Now looking back, that must have been a horrible year. Oh, so he lived there when Barbara was born? Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And do you think the grandmother was still alive also? Barbara, that is? She was 64 when she died. Oh. So. Strange household though, huh? Yeah. Three generations. Yeah. All mixed. Yeah. And Aunt Mary, she truly should have been a nun. I think she probably would have been, only she fell and broke her hip somehow. I mean, there's a picture of her like with crutches or something. But she was so religious. She had a little prayer room. She never made Barbara do this, but she made me do it. Hold my arms out. Hold your arms out, like crucifix style? Like the cross You know. What did she pick on me for? You needed salvation. Oh. On your knees? This little brat needs to do some penance. Yeah. Like this, even as a kid. And I thought oh God, when can I let my arms down? And would you do the rosary or something? Oh, I suppose. I don't remember. There's a little statue. Oh, I suppose a crucifix. Probably a statue of the Blessed Mother. She truly should have been a nun. I don't think she and my mother, they were so entirely different. Oh, yeah. And I don't think they got off to a good start, because my mother asked her to be a bridesmaid. Yeah. And I think she probably thought Dad was marrying beneath himself. Uh-huh. Because they were friends with the governor that lived up the street, you know. I kind of get the impression. They had a few bucks. They always had the horse and buggy. Like 5900, the number plate that Barbara has, that was how many cars were on the road at the time. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. When they got their first license plate. Yeah. Uh-huh. What was I saying? So what happened when she asked you to be a bridesmaid? Oh, she said, well, Agnes, you have so many friends. Why don't you have these friends? Wow. Yeah. So my mother told me the story, and that's as far as she went. And I just, I don’t know, but my mother was so, like, they would take her on trips and The Canavans would? Yeah, if Dad, once in a while, when they'd go on a trip, they'd take Aunt Mary. Oh, take Aunt Mary. And it would be, I think, more my mother's idea, you know. She'd make up scrapbooks. Aunt Mary would? Oh, yeah, pictures and writing underneath.
DOWNLOAD/ OPEN TEXT DM-10062 04-30-02 Shanna- Papie, dark rm, canavans And what do you know of your mother's childhood and education? Nothing, that's what I ws saying. I often think, what was her childhood like? I know they were poor, poor. Because Ginny said, her folks, she said, her mother was poor. But she said, her mother said, my mother was, they were poor, poor. There really aren't any pictures of Grammy, were there? Are there, when she was little? Just the one in the school picture. And then there's the one I have in the hall, standing, I think, holding onto a chair. But Dad, on the other hand, you know, they always took trips and picture taking. Barbara was telling me not too long ago, which I didn't know, that Uncle James was like Dad. And they, before either one were married, they had a dark room upstairs. On Wakefield Street. And I guess Uncle James always, you know, had that. And Dad had the dark room down in the cellar on Brook Street. Oh yeah, that's right. And I remember being down with him. It was very interesting, one little red light. Oh, I was with my dad every chance I got, I loved him. I loved my mother, too. Entirely different personalities. Did Papie ever buy a camera for any of you kids? Or let you use his camera? No, he never made a lot about us taking pictures. Yeah, because he took so many. But Grammy, growing up, you know that she lived with her mother and her grandmother. Her father was a wanderer. She had the two oldest siblings and two deceased siblings. And this is what I wish I had asked more about, you know, what her childhood was like. Yeah. They lived in an apartment. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. If it was a small one family. Oh. Or two families, I don't know. But you know the address. Yeah. You've never driven past or anything. No. Huh. I know. It was off, if it still left, Webb Street, off Mineral Spring Avenue. In? Pawtucket. Pawtucket, right. Yeah, it was Pawtucket. It was a prairie, she often would say. It was a prairie? That's funny. And then she went to public school? Yeah. Oh, no, she went to St. Mary's. In Pawtucket? Mm-hmm. Until? And I think she only went to like sixth grade. I think Dad only went to eighth grade. But, you know, her spelling was always great, her penmanship. Wow. Yeah, by sixth grade. And I remember we used to go, Dad used to take us to the Lafayette often to eat. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. And she would recite that whole thing. Lafayette was a Frenchman, you know. Oh, yeah, she was a great, her education consisted of a lot of memorization, I think. She had poems. But, you know, like in her, remember, from grammar school. Yeah. And Dad was the only one that didn't have like a college education. In his family? Yeah. Really? Yeah. And I don't know why, unless it was when his mother took sick, Uncle James went to like, what am I trying to say? Like a... a trade school? Yeah. That's not the word I was looking for, but like a trade school. And he was really artistic. And Aunt Mary went to a normal school, became principal. And Uncle John, who I don't remember, went to Johns Hopkins. Wow. So, tell me the order of Papie's siblings. Uncle James. Was the oldest. Yeah. Dad. Mm-hmm. Aunt Mary and John. And, oh, she lost about at least three. Really? I think she had one or two Johns before. Oh, really? Before it took... My mother said he was, and from his pictures, he was handsome. Yeah. But he's the one you didn't know? No. He died of TB like at the age of 32 or something. Oh, gosh. And I remember... He was the youngest. Yeah. And was his mother still alive, do you think? She died when she was 64. And what was her name? Barbara. Oh, Barbara Warburton? Mm-hmm. Was she the Warburton? Mm-hmm. And then she... She was the oldest of, I think, eight. Oh, really? Yeah. And her father became a Catholic after, I think, something like 14 years of marriage. And became very devout, played... They all played the organ at church. And I guess his name was James. He played the organ. Aunt Mary Canavan, and Dad. Uncle James played the clarinet. They had a small little band. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. So, Barbara Warburton, her father was James Warburton? And what was her mother's name? I think it... I'm not sure. Maybe like Alice O'Hare. O'Hare? She was Irish, yeah. Huh. What's Warburton? English? Yeah. And what was his religion that he grew up with? I don't know. A Christian, Protestant faith? Yeah. And then she had... I know Ma's grandmother was Presbyterian. I remember Ma saying that. And I think a lot of people born in Scotland were Presbyterian. Oh. You remind me of Carolyn Farrick. She did that all the time. Twisted her hair. Yeah. So, Barbara Warburton, who was probably raised Catholic... Yes. ...married... Richard Sylvester. Where that came from, I don't know. Canavan? Oh, that was Papie's father's name, Richard? Mm-hmm Richard Sylvester Canavan. Do you know anything about his parents? His father was John. I suppose his mother was Mary. No, and I'm sure it's in... John Canavan. You don't know what her maiden name was? No. I'll have to pull out, you know, the little history that Aunt Mary Canavan... Yeah, I'd like to see that. I'm so glad she wrote that down. Thank God. And that was because of Jimmy Gamlin. Oh, yeah. You know, it was a school project. Yeah. Just like Carrie with Nana. Yeah, and just like Richard with Nana. Yeah, only Aunt Mary's is much more extensive. Oh, good. I mean, she had the dates, you know, when this one died. Right. Yeah. So, Barbara married Richard. Yeah. And they had those four. Four. James. James, Ambrose. Ambrose, Mary, and... I don't know where Henry Ambrose came from. And then who did your uncle's... Aunt Mary never married? No. No. She was an unpicked bud. The unpicked bud. And James, did he ever marry? I'm sorry. I'm mixing it up with John. John. John died. John died. John married too? Yes. Even though he died at 32? Yeah. I think her name was Edna for some reason. Did they have children? No. No. But my mother's recollection of him, and I heard it hundreds of times, was getting off the train and, I don't know, she said he was just the most handsome man with two great danes. Oh, really? Yeah. That's what I heard about him. I remember about Uncle John. Where did he live? Well, probably coming from medical school or whatever. Oh, he went to medical school. Was he a practicing doctor? I would think so, by 32. Yeah, by 32. But I don't know anything about that either. Wow. You know, all these things I never asked Dad. And he died of TB? Yep. Wow. And Edna just kind of lost track? Yeah, Barbara kind of kept in touch. See, she was that much older and, of course, living in the old homestead, and all the aunts and cousins, they'd always go there. And, you know, Dad would talk about, Aunt Alica and Aunt Bertha, this and tha. You know, I mean, they had Who's Bertha? Bertha Mullen. She married, I don't know, one of those girls, Barbara? Mary? Sarah? Hiram? Whittaker? Whose kids are these? Barbara's siblings. Barbara Gamelin? No, Barbara, my grandmother. Oh, the eight Warburtons. Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. But Hiram and Whittaker. Wow. I remember Dad saying, Whittaker, they called him Warby. Oh. Not much better than. So, James is Barbara's father. Yeah. And he was the oldest. Yeah. And he ended up staying in the family home. Yeah. He had to go down and cellar to smoke. Who's his wife? Well, her name was Mary Brennan of course she died in childbirth. The peritonitis set in that was the doctor's fault because people, you know, from what I've heard, so many people said you should sue that doctor, but they wouldn't. So imagine having a new baby and your wife died. Do you think that's when he moved back home, or do you think he just never left? Yeah, because I think they might have lived in Pawtucket. Oh, she was from Pawtucket, too. Her name was Mary Brennan. Pretty. Some pictures I've seen really are pretty. And her mother said she was such a nice, nice person. So Barbara was brought up by Aunt Mary. And Aunt Tilda. Who's Tilda? She was my grandfather's sister. Richard's sister. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I didn't ask that. Who had a brother, John, Tilda, Mathilda, Mary Ann, and Lizzie. And they were all Canavans. And Tilda lived with him? Yeah, she and Aunt Mary, because Aunt Mary was, really it was Aunt Tilda that brought up Barbara, because Aunt Mary was, teaching. And she was, I remember, she was clean, clean, clean. In fact, Barbara said, you know, later in life, she said, I'm sorry I ever brought you up this way, because Barbara is, she'd be taking things out of the cabinet to wash. She did. She took them out of, I don't know where, took everything out of the china closet. I said, oh, God, I didn't get any of your genes. But I remember my mother saying, you know, as kids, if we dropped crumbs, she'd be right after us with a dustpan and broom. Tilda. Aunt Tilda. So who was living in the house when Barbara was growing up? Her father and Aunt Tilda and Aunt Mary. And that's it? Yeah. And I think I told you too, which I didn't know until not too long ago, that Grampy bought that duplex as an investment and had planned, you know, to build a house for them later on. So it was a duplex? Yeah. So who lived where? Well, they always lived on the left side, and then they rented. Oh, they did? No, when Barbara got married, she lived on the left side. So Richard and Barbara were dead by the time? I think, oh, and I remember Martha.. . in fact, I have a nice writer about my grandfather. And I think my dad was more like my grandfather. My mother said he was the most wonderful man. I guess easygoing and just she couldn't praise him enough. So she knew him? Yeah. Yeah. I think he died in 1933. Now looking back, that must have been a horrible year. Oh, so he lived there when Barbara was born? Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And do you think the grandmother was still alive also? Barbara, that is? She was 64 when she died. Oh. So. Strange household though, huh? Yeah. Three generations. Yeah. All mixed. Yeah. And Aunt Mary, she truly should have been a nun. I think she probably would have been, only she fell and broke her hip somehow. I mean, there's a picture of her like with crutches or something. But she was so religious. She had a little prayer room. She never made Barbara do this, but she made me do it. Hold my arms out. Hold your arms out, like crucifix style? Like the cross You know. What did she pick on me for? You needed salvation. Oh. On your knees? This little brat needs to do some penance. Yeah. Like this, even as a kid. And I thought oh God, when can I let my arms down? And would you do the rosary or something? Oh, I suppose. I don't remember. There's a little statue. Oh, I suppose a crucifix. Probably a statue of the Blessed Mother. She truly should have been a nun. I don't think she and my mother, they were so entirely different. Oh, yeah. And I don't think they got off to a good start, because my mother asked her to be a bridesmaid. Yeah. And I think she probably thought Dad was marrying beneath himself. Uh-huh. Because they were friends with the governor that lived up the street, you know. I kind of get the impression. They had a few bucks. They always had the horse and buggy. Like 5900, the number plate that Barbara has, that was how many cars were on the road at the time. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. When they got their first license plate. Yeah. Uh-huh. What was I saying? So what happened when she asked you to be a bridesmaid? Oh, she said, well, Agnes, you have so many friends. Why don't you have these friends? Wow. Yeah. So my mother told me the story, and that's as far as she went. And I just, I don’t know, but my mother was so, like, they would take her on trips and The Canavans would? Yeah, if Dad, once in a while, when they'd go on a trip, they'd take Aunt Mary. Oh, take Aunt Mary. And it would be, I think, more my mother's idea, you know. She'd make up scrapbooks. Aunt Mary would? Oh, yeah, pictures and writing underneath.
Barbara Agnes Canavan
Barbara's earliest memories start when she was six years old, when her father carried her out to his car to go to a doctor's appointment. She has no memory of being hospitalized for surgery on her left leg for osteomyelitis.
This condition set the trajectory for a childhood filled with treatments and uncertainty.
DOWNLOAD/ OPEN TEXT DM-10058 03-09-02 Shanna- earliest memories on Brooks St at age 6 What I've been asking everybody is what is your earliest memory? Do you have any crib memories? No. No. No. But there was a crib in the house. Oh, must have been, had to be. Do you remember Regina being in a crib? No. You don't? My first memory is my dad heating up the car, carrying me out to go to, is this being recorded? I can't say the word. Dear Dr. Horan, for ultraviolet treatments. Why? You know. I don't like that on. Well, in those days, I don't know what good it was supposed to do for, you know, after, this was after I was operated on. Oh. Oh, okay. So it was your earliest, that happened when you were six. Yeah, but that's my earliest memory. Six. Didn't you just say six? Six. Six is when your first operation was. I don't remember, anything before six. Nothing. Nothing. When did you go to kindergarten? You probably didn't go to kindergarten. Um, well, I remember my mother telling me that when she took me, they asked my name and I insisted it was Barbara Elizabeth. Elizabeth. Which later got changed to Barbara Ann with an E. Yes. And then, oh, I guess I was insistent. And they said, okay, you know, I'm sure they put down my right name. But I insisted Barbara Elizabeth. That was first grade? Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. Yeah, I think I had just started first grade when I took sick, because I missed all of first grade. Um. And I remember Ma turning the bed facing the front windows and the class stood across the street and sang. Yeah, I remember that. Um, this, what room were you in at the time? My field, the bed room you have. Right. And so they were out on Brook Street at the front door side. And is that where your sick bed was? In your mother's room? Yeah. I remember being there. That's where she kept you? Donoghue Yeah. I remember the pediatrician, Dr. Donoghue, coming and he was a funny guy and singing Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf, you know, trying to make me laugh. And when I was to receive my first communion, I didn't let the priest give it to me. And my mother said, oh, God was knocking on your little heart, and you didn't let him in. And all my mother could think of was, I don't know if it was that night or the night after, um, it was windy and the shade must have been banging against the window. And I said, oh, God, I said, God knocking on my little heart. Mishanucutt. Oh, okay, public school. Oh, yeah. And was that walking distance to your house? Oh, yeah. And do you remember the first day of school? You don't, just from your mother's story? Yeah. And you don't remember anything before school? You don't remember Mary? Some of my early memories before I was in school was Kevin coming home from school. Oh, really? Yeah. On Springvale. Now, how old would you have been? Well, I was two years behind him in school. Yeah. So it could have been, um, you know, when I was four or three. Hmm. But you don't remember anything? Ginny’s funny. She remembers things like when she was a year and a half or two years old. Yeah, some people do. Charlie said he has crib memories. Really? He said they're not very delicate. Well, think about it. Think about it. If you, um, you know, maybe in a reflective moment you can come up with something that would pre-date that Or even pictures, you know, that I look at. Nothing. So back in those days when you started school, which bedroom was yours? Probably, um, the back bedroom where the twin beds were. Uh-huh. And then, um, and I don't know how old I was. One night my mother and father were out and Mary was babysitting and her door must have been closed or something. And, um, I went down, out down the street to the Bomley's to see if I could see Mary in the Bomley's. And I kind of remember this. And my mother said, you know, it's cold, October. And nothing on my feet. I was both in my... You wanted to see if you could see Mary in her room from outside the house? No, I wanted to see if she was in Edie Bomley's house. Oh, you thought you had left the house? Yeah. I mean, you know, I was half asleep. I mean, her door must have been closed. And she's what, nine years older? Eight. Eight. And, um, so I didn't see her so I stopped at the Almy's, rang their doorbell at like 11 o'clock at night. And, um, by that time my mother and father were home and they almost died when Mrs. Almy called and said, Barbara is here. So, um, tell me again, your parents went away for a short trip? Probably a week. A week? A vacation? They always went away on their anniversary. So that's why I think it was, you know, the first week in October. Oh, okay. And Dot McIlroy? Eleanor. Eleanor McElroy. And how was she your cousin? Uh, her mother and my mother are sisters. Okay. What was her mother's name? McElroy. Uh, her first name though? Eleanor. Eleanor's mother's name was Eleanor? Oh, oh, Mary. Not Mary. Mary. Mary Murray. Yeah. She was 12 years older than my mother. Oh, wow. Yeah. But my grandmother lost, she lost, um, a couple of children anyway. Hmm.
EXPAND TEXT DM-10058 03-09-02 Shanna- earliest memories on Brooks St at age 6 What I've been asking everybody is what is your earliest memory? Do you have any crib memories? No. No. No. But there was a crib in the house. Oh, must have been, had to be. Do you remember Regina being in a crib? No. You don't? My first memory is my dad heating up the car, carrying me out to go to, is this being recorded? I can't say the word. Dear Dr. Horan, for ultraviolet treatments. Why? You know. I don't like that on. Well, in those days, I don't know what good it was supposed to do for, you know, after, this was after I was operated on. Oh. Oh, okay. So it was your earliest, that happened when you were six. Yeah, but that's my earliest memory. Six Didn't you just say six? Six. Six is when your first operation was. I don't remember, anything before six. Nothing. Nothing. When did you go to kindergarten? You probably didn't go to kindergarten. Um, well, I remember my mother telling me that when she took me, they asked my name and I insisted it was Barbara Elizabeth. Elizabeth. Which later got changed to Barbara Anne with an E. Yes. And then, oh, I guess I was insistent. And they said, okay, you know, I'm sure they put down my right name. But I insisted Barbara Elizabeth. That was first grade? Yeah. Oh, wait a minute. Yeah, I think I had just started first grade when I took sick, because I missed all of first grade. Um. And I remember Ma turning the bed facing the front windows and the class stood across the street and sang. Yeah, I remember that. Um, this, what room were you in at the time? Ma’s, the old, the bed room you have. Right, and so they were out on Broosk Street at the front door side. And is that where your sick bed was? In your mother's room? Yeah. I remember being there. That's where she kept you? Yeah. I remember the pediatrician, Dr. Donoghue, coming and he was a funny guy and singing Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf, you know, trying to make me laugh. And when I was to receive my first communion, I wouldn't let the priest give it to me. And my mother said, oh, God was knocking on your little heart, and you didn't let him in. And all my mother could think of was, I don't know if it was that night or the night after, um, it was windy and the shade must have been banging against the window. And I said, oh, God, I said, God’s knocking on my little heart. So you would take communion now? Yeah. Ummm, so back up a minute, if you started first grade when you were six, you turned six in April and then that September you started first grade. MmmHmmm At what school? Meshanicut. Oh, okay, public school. Oh, yeah. And was that walking distance to your house? Oh, yeah. And do you remember the first day of school? You don't, just from your mother's story? Yeah. And you don't remember anything before school? You don't remember Mary? Some of my early memories before I was in school was Kevin coming home from school. Oh, really? Yeah. On Springvale. Now, how old would you have been? Well, I was two years behind him in school. Yeah. So it could have been, um, you know, when I was four or three. Hmm. But you don't remember anything? Ginny’s funny. She remembers things like when she was a year and a half or two years old. Yeah, some people do. Charlie said he has crib memories. Really? He said they're not very delicate. Well, think about it. Think about it. If you, um, you know, maybe in a reflective moment you can come up with something that would pre-date that … or even pictures, you know, that I look at. Nothing. So back in those days when you started school, which bedroom was yours? Probably, um, the back bedroom where the twin beds were. Uh-huh. And then, um, and I don't know how old I was. One night my mother and father were out and Mary was babysitting and her door must have been closed or something. And, um, I went down, out down the street to the Bomleys’ to see if I could see Mary in the Bomleys’. And I kind of remember this. And my mother said, you know, it's cold, October. And nothing on my feet. I was both in my... You wanted to see if you could see Mary in her room from outside the house? No, I wanted to see if she was in Edie Bomleys’ house. Oh, you thought you had left the house? Yeah. I mean, you know, I was half asleep. I mean, her door must have been closed. And she's what, nine years older? Eight. Eight. And, um, so I didn't see her so I stopped at the Almys’, rang their doorbell at like 11 o'clock at night. And, um, by that time my mother and father were home and they almost died when Mrs. Almy called and said, Barbara is here. So, um, tell me again, your parents went away for a short trip? Probably a week. A week? A vacation? They always went away on their anniversary. So that's why I think it was, you know, the first week in October. Oh, okay. And Dot McIEroy? Eleanor. Eleanor McElroy. And how was she your cousin? Uh, her mother and my mother are sisters. Okay. What was her mother's name? McElroy. Uh, her first name though? Eleanor. Eleanor's mother's name was Eleanor? Oh, oh, Mary. Aunt Mary. Mary. Mary Murray? Yeah. She was 12 years older than my mother. Oh, wow. Yeah. But my grandmother lost, she lost, um, a couple of children anyway. Hmm.
Barbara Agnes Canavan
Barbara's mother's parents were John and Mary (Higgins) Murray who raised their family on 37 Webb Street in Pawtucket, RI.
Despite the fact that they had five children, John was not home much and was dubbed a "wanderer" or a "drifter." Mary's mother, Mary McLaughlan Higgins, lived with the family most of the time and Barbara's memories are centered mostly around her mother and grandmother.
DOWNLOAD/ OPEN TEXT DM-10059 03-09-02 Shanna- John Murray the Wanderer and 37 Webb St., Pawtucket Just to back up a little bit, tell me who's in Grammy's family, her nuclear family. Aunt Mary. Aunt Mary first, she's the oldest. Yeah, and Uncle Tom was older. Was older. Yeah. Than Mary? No, younger. Okay. Aunt Mary, Uncle Tom, and... and that's it. Yeah, and then I know there was a Maggie, because I have that little plaque, you know, that's on the wall. She must have died. Yeah, at like three years or so. Oh. Yeah. But you don't know if she was older or younger. And I said to Linda, oh, you know, my mother had a sister, Maggie, and I told her, you know, she lived until about age three. Oh, if I had only known, I would have called Maggie, Maggie Murray. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what were Grammy's parents' names? Mary and John. Oh, for God's sake. Mary what? What was her maiden name? Higgins. Higgins. Mary Higgins Murray and John... Murray. We don't know what Murray, no middle name that you know of. No. And then they had Mary... He was a wanderer. He was a wanderer. That's all you know about him. That's all I know. He'd go out to sea, to see lakes. That is so weird. So he just leaves the family. I guess. Because my mother always just talked about, of course, her mother and her grandmother. Do you think her grandmother lived with her? Yeah. And what was her name? Well, Mary McLaughlin. And then she was a Presbyterian, became a Catholic. And I don't know whether her first husband died, but then of course she'd be... I don't know if she was married to Higgins. And as far as I know, which I never asked my mother's mother, my grandmother, I don't know if she had any siblings. Never asked. You know, probably she did and they died young. I don't know. I could ask that, but... Oh, I don't know. She's way up in her 90s now. I don't know if May would know anything. But once when I asked Dot about Ma's father, I have no interest in my ancestry. Oh, wow. She said, all I know, he died in the old soldier's home. Oh, really? Was he young, do you think? I have no idea. Nothing I know of. He was a wanderer. He was a wanderer. Where did they live? 37 Webb Street, Pawtucket. Because when Ma was losing it, you know, on Brook Street, I said, well, you know, I think I'm going to leave now, Ma. I'll go home with you, dear. And I said, well, this is home, Ma. No, no. I said, well, where do you think home is? 37 Webb Street. She lived there all her life? Mm-hmm. I mean, until she got married. Mm-hmm. And so her older sister Mary was 12 years older? I think she was married very young, so really, you know, Ma was so close to, naturally, her mother and her grandmother. She was really brought up by the two of them. Mary and Mary. Yeah, I'm not sure it was Margaret. I'm not sure. What did she call them? Do you know? I just don't know. Grandmother. And so... Holier than holy. Both of them. Yeah, especially, well, both of them, yeah. Do you think that Mary McLaughlin Higgins moved in with your grandmother? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It wasn't her house. I don't think so. I don't think so. So Mary married John Murray. Mm-hmm. And they moved into Webb Street, and then they brought the grandmother in. Right. Probably. As far as I know, yeah. Or maybe she came to live with them when John took off. I don't know. They had five children anyway, so he wasn't away often. Five? I think she lost a couple, and I think one, when I named, yep, and I think one was David, because when I named David, my mother said, Oh, Aunt Mary remembers my having a David. Wow. And for some reason, I think she had a Janet. Wow.
EXPAND TEXT DM-10059 03-09-02 Shanna- John Murray the Wanderer and 37 Webb St., Pawtucket Just to back up a little bit, tell me who's in Grammy's family, her nuclear family. Aunt Mary. Aunt Mary first, she's the oldest. Yeah, and Uncle Tom was older. Was older. Yeah. Than Mary? No, younger. Okay. Aunt Mary, Uncle Tom, and... and that's it. Yeah, and then I know there was a Maggie, because I have that little plaque, you know, that's on the wall. She must have died. Yeah, at like three years or so. Oh. Yeah. But you don't know if she was older or younger. And I said to Linda, oh, you know, my mother had a sister, Maggie, and I told her, you know, she lived until about age three. Oh, if I had only known, I would have called Maggie, Maggie Murray. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what were Grammy's parents' names? Mary and John. Oh, for God's sake. Mary what? What was her maiden name? Higgins. Higgins. Mary Higgins Murray and John... Murray. We don't know what Murray, no middle name that you know of. No. And then they had Mary... He was a wanderer. He was a wanderer. That's all you know about him. That's all I know. He'd go out to sea, to see what he could see. That is so weird. So he just leaves the family. I guess. Because my mother always just talked about, of course, her mother and her grandmother. Do you think her grandmother lived with her? Yeah. And what was her name? Well, Mary McLaughlin. And then she was a Presbyterian, became a Catholic. And I don't know whether her first husband died, but then of course she'd be... I don't know she was married to Higgins. And as far as I know, which I never asked, my mother's mother, my grandmother, I don't know if she had any siblings. Never asked. You know, probably she did and they died young. I don't know. I could ask Dot, but... Oh, I don't know. She's way up in her 90s now. I don't know if May would know anything. But once when I asked Dot about Ma's father, I have no interest in my ancestry. Oh, wow. She said, all I know, he died in the old soldier's home. Oh, really? Was he young, do you think? I have no idea. You don’t know if he like had alcohol problems or… Not that I know of. He was a wanderer. He was a wanderer. Where did they live? 37 Webb Street, Pawtucket. Because when Ma was losing it, you know, on Brook Street, I said, well, you know, I think I better leave now, Ma. I'll go home with you, dear. And I said, well, this is home, Ma. No, no. I said, well, where do you think home is? 37 Webb Street. She lived there all her life? Mm-hmm. I mean, until she got married. Mm-hmm. And so her older sister Mary was 12 years older? I think she was married very young, so really, you know, Ma was so close to, naturally, her mother and her grandmother. She was really brought up by the two of them. Mary and Mary. Yeah, I'm not sure it was Margaret. I'm not sure. What did she call them? Do you know? I just don't know. Grandmother. And so... Holier than holy. Both of them. Yeah, especially, well, both of them, yeah. Do you think that Mary McLaughlin Higgins moved in with your grandmother? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It wasn't her house. I don't think so. Webb Street? I don't think so. So Mary married John Murray. Mm-hmm. And they moved into Webb Street, and then they brought the grandmother in. Right. Probably. As far as I know, yeah. Or maybe she came to live with them when John took off. I don't know. They had five children anyway, so he wasn't away often. Five? I think she lost a couple, and I think one, when I named, yep, and I think one was David, because when I named David, my mother said, Oh, Aunt Mary remembers Ma having a David. Wow. And for some reason, I think she had a Janet. Wow.
